Posts Tagged ‘Mark I’
S&W 78G and 79G – Part 2
by B.B. Pelletier
Today, we’ll look at velocity and power of the S&W 78G. I’m getting reacquainted with this pistol because I’d completely forgotten how it performs. For starters, I’d sent this gun to Dave Gunter in Oregon to reseal and soup it up. Dave and I decided that I wanted the maximum power I could get from the gun, so that’s what he gave me.
Dave also told me I’d get only a few shots from a CO2 cartridge at this power level. I accepted that because I seldom shoot CO2 guns, anyway, so gas conservation isn’t high on my list, but in this case performance was.
In Part 1, I neglected to tell you about the pistol’s other modifications. At some time in the past, the former owner had the trigger turned into an adjustable one. Though it’s only a single-stage regardless of where the trigger is set, the let-off can be adjusted down into the dangerous range. It was set that way when I bought it through the internet, and I asked Dave to adjust it to a safe level as long as he was working on the gun.
Trigger adjustment
He was shocked at how unsafe this kind of adjustment is, because all it does is reduce the contact area of the sear. For those who are new to shooting, the sear is that part of the trigger that safely holds the action in the cocked position until the shooter intentionally fires the gun through the use of the trigger. That last thing you want is a gun whose sear contact area is so small that it can slip off on its own or even slip when the gun is bumped slightly!
The trigger adjustment just changes the area of sear contact. This is not where the factory adjustment would be. And, yes, that is the first owner’s name scratched into the triggerguard. It’s also on the box.
Power boost
To get the power from the gun, Dave worked on the valve, both opening and smoothing the ports through which the gas must flow. he also switched the valve return spring to one better balanced to the modifications he’s made. That we cannot see because it’s buried deep inside the gun. But we can see one additional touch he added to the bolt. He thinned the bolt nose and smoothed it to reduce any resistance to gas flow.
The thinned bolt probe is seen on the left, and this photo shows you how the bolt opens straight back. Since it doesn’t cock the mainspring, the bolt is light and easy to move.
Velocity with RWS Hobbys
Okay, time to stop talking and start showing the performance. RWS Hobby pellets are lightweight .22 caliber pellets. At 11.9 grains, they’re just about the lightest all-lead pellets you can find. In my hot-rodded 78G, they average 532 f.p.s. with a spread from 523 to 542. That’s quite a bit faster than the 2240, so I remembered wrong. The average muzzle energy is 7.48 foot-pounds, or a full foot-pound more than the 2240. The 2240 averaged 482 f.p.s., and the Mark I averaged 472 f.p.s.. The 78G is clearly in the lead.
Velocity with RWS Superdomes
With RWS Superdomes the 78G averaged 492 f.p.s. The spread was a tight one, from 484 to 497 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy was 7.8 foot-pounds, so a little more than the Hobbys. For comparison, the 2240 averaged 455 f.p.s. (the Crosman Mark I wasn’t tested with Superdomes).
Velocity with Crosman Premiers
The 78G shot Crosman Premier pellets at an average velocity of 494 f.p.s. The spread went from 486 to 498 f.p.s. That works out to an average muzzle energy of 7.75 foot-pounds. The 2240 averaged 448 f.p.s., and the Crosman Mark I averaged 431 f.p.s.
So, what’s the downside?
You want that kind of power? Then you must pay. You might get that power from a longer barrel, but to get it from the stock 78G barrel means the total number of shots is just 15. There are powerful shots left after No. 15, and a casual shooter might see as many as 25 shots from one cartridge. For tight velocity spreads, 15 shots is all you get.
This is where the 2240 will kick the 78G’s butt. Because for only a few dollars, you can put on a longer barrel that will probably give you the extra oomph you want without disturbing the shot count. This is where the physics of CO2 operations comes into play.
But this 78G is still a cool air pistol. I’m having fun shooting it again after so many months of being dormant. It’s sleek and it’s powerful. We’ll find out next time if it’s also accurate.
S&W 78G and 79G – Part 1
by B.B. Pelletier
Nobody asked for this report, but after completing the report on the Crosman Mark I and starting the report on the Crosman 2240, I thought I’d complete the circle by reporting on this pistol, as well. Why this one, you ask? Because, back in the day, the 78G was a competitor of the Mark I in both power and accuracy.
I reported on the 78G as recently as last year, but that report was thin. Now, with both the Mark I and the 2240 getting a full three-part test, I feel I have to include this gun as well, to round out the field.
This is my S&W 78G in the box. Many of these guns have their original boxes because they were sold as new old-stock just 10 years ago.
History
The .22 caliber 78G and .177 caliber 79G single-shot target pistols were made (actually, produced) by Smith & Wesson from 1971 through 1980. They were first made in their Tampa, Florida, plant. In 1973, they moved the airgun division up to Springfield, Mass. In 1978, they moved airguns back to Florida. From this point forward, I’ll speak specifically about the 78G, unless I indicate otherwise, though much of what goes for one gun goes for the other, as well.
The first version of the gun was finished in shiny black paint, featured two power levels and had an adjustable trigger. Later, the adjustable trigger was discontinued, the cocking notches reduced to just one and the paint was changed to a dull matte finish that was more uniform than the shiny black.
Blog reader twotalon sent us this photo of the adjustable trigger on his S&W 78G.
In 1980, S&W parent, Bangor Punta, sold the pistol design to Daisy, who rechristened them the models 780 and 790. The triggers got much heavier and creepier during this transition. The final model Daisy made was a shiny, nickel-plated, .177 caliber model 41 that paid homage to the S&W model 41 target pistol, which the guns were originally patterned after. It has the worst trigger and surface finish of all.
So, if you’re seeking the finest guns to shoot, look for a model 78G with shiny black paint and adjustable trigger. But beware. S&W had problems with porous metal castings in the early pistols, and some of the early guns will leak down and cannot be repaired. I owned one early model, but the gun I’m testing for you in this report is the later version.
In many ways, the 78G is the equivalent of the Crosman Mark I and the 2240. The way it handles is beautiful. It balances much like a Smith & Wesson model 41, which I borrowed and compared — gun-to-gun — for an article in an Airgun Revue. Both guns hold well, with the weight centered in the hand and just a touch of muzzle heaviness.The 78G feels as much like its firearm equivalent as the Mark I feels like a Ruger, except that the 2240 has no firearm counterpart and feels just as nice as the other two.
Fit
The gun sits low in the hand, making the sight line easy to acquire. The trigger blade is well-situated for my average hand. Like the Mark I, the 78G has two cocking knobs protruding from either side of the frame above the trigger. However, the later versions of the gun have a single power level, unlike the Mark I. The early gun with the adjustable trigger also has two power levels.
Loading
Loading is done separately from cocking, just like the Mark I. On this gun, a latch is pulled and the bolt is pulled straight back to expose the loading trough. There’s no resistance to this bolt, as it doesn’t cock the action, so loading is smooth and easy.
Adjustable power
The gun’s power is adjustable, and there have been aftermarket power boosts for this pistol almost since Smith and Wesson began making them. The power adjustment is in the same place as on the Mark I, and it works the same way. Turn the screw inward to put more tension on the hammer spring and outward to reduce tension. The more tension, the longer the valve stays open and the most gas flows through.
All 78G and 79G pistols have a power adjustment screw located beneath the muzzle at the front of the gun. The outer ring locks the power adjustment screw in place.
My observation
What I’m about to suggest has no basis in fact, and I’ve never even heard it suggested before other than by me. I find the Smith & Wesson 78G/79G actions to be remarkably similar to the Crosman Mark I/Mark II actions. They cock the same way, they load the same way, the power is adjusted in the same way and the adjustable triggers work the same. I see too much similarity to believe it happened by coincidence. The Crosman guns began production in 1966 and the S&Ws started in 1971. I feel certain there was some borrowing of technology by S&W when they designed their pistols. Beyond that observation, I know nothing.
This should prove to be an interesting report. When I’m finished, we’ll have nine reports on three very significant air pistols.
The Crosman Mark I and Mark II – Part 3
by B.B. Pelletier
The September podcast went live yesterday. If you enjoy hunting, you’ll like this podcast! My voice still sounds a little weak, but I think that I also didn’t set up something properly in Garage Band, which is how I record the podcast. Now, on to today’s blog.
Today, we’ll look at accuracy. Several years ago, I wrote a feature article for Shotgun News in which I pitted the Mark I and a Smith & Wesson 78G against a modern Crosman 2240. I thought the vintage guns would run away with the contest when it came to accuracy, but the reverse happened. The 2240 beat both other guns for power and accuracy. So, tomorrow I’m starting a special three-part test of the 2240, just to keep the playing field level. Today, it’s the Mark I’s turn in the spotlight.
I go back to school
The first couple groups I shot at 10 meters weren’t good. I wondered what had happened to me, then I remembered that I shoot a lot better without my bifocals on. For some reason, my glasses make it difficult to focus on the front sight.
So, off came the specs and on went the shooting glasses. The groups got smaller, but not as much as I was hoping for. Then I did something I’ve preached against for the past 40 years. I closed my left eye! Suddenly, I could see the front sight and the rear sight clearly, and the groups tightened right up to what they were supposed to be. So, lesson learned for the umpteenth time. Don’t shoot with your regular glasses on and cover up that non-sighting eye. My shooting glasses do all that, I was just too lazy to go find them. Besides, I wanted to see if I could still shoot without that aid.
Trigger-pull
The trigger-pull is still set rather heavy, breaking at around 5 lbs. on stage two. But, when the gun is rested, as it was for this test, that’s not a hindrance.
RWS Hobbys
Remember, the Crosman Mark I is .22 caliber, not .177. The RWS Hobby is a lightweight wadcutter pellet in both .177 and .22. It seemed to fit the breech of the pistol fairly well, with a little resistance as the bolt pushed it home. They grouped well but had a couple fliers that could have been caused by my sighting experiments. I was shooting 10-shot groups as usual, and that takes a lot longer than the same number of 5-shot groups, so I didn’t run the Hobbys again because other pellets promised more accuracy.
RWS Hobby pellets showed promise with this 10-shot group at 10 meters. Six of the 10 went into a very tight group, and this was during the time when I was experimenting with sighting!
Gamo Hunter
I initially tried Gamo Hunter pellets and got a pretty good group, despite my sighting problems. And, when I went again while doing everything right, the 10-shot group was truly rewarding!
This group of 10 Gamo Hunters was shot after I got the sighting sorted out. The first group showed lots of promise, and this was the payoff. The lower pellet was not called as a flier.
RWS Superdomes
I didn’t wait to hear from disgruntled readers that I’d overlooked the RWS Superdome pellet yet again, so they were included in this test. The first group was shot while I was having sighting problems, and also during a CO2 cartridge changeover, and it still was tight enough to recommend a further look. That further look, shot after the sighting problems had been resolved, proved to be the best of the test! So those who tout RWS Superdomes were right in this case.
And there’s the money shot. Ten RWS Superdomes went into that tiny group at 10 meters. Clearly, the best pellet of those tested.
Crosman Premiers
I did try Crosman Premiers, as well, but they fit the breech very loosely and didn’t have the same grouping potential as the others. Perhaps on another day….
The bottom line
The bottom line for the Crosman Mark I vintage air pistol is that it’s a very worthy handgun. The prices seem to have risen over the past year, but they can still be bought if you’re a careful searcher. The prize seems well worth the effort.
The Crosman Mark I and Mark II – Part 2
by B.B. Pelletier
Crosman’s Mark I Target is a beautiful single-shot air pistol. It resembles the Ruger Mark I.
Well, today I’ll test the velocity of my Crosman Mark I pistol. And you’ll recall that I’d planned to adjust the gun’s power for you as well. Well, I discovered that the pistol was already set as high as the adjustment will go, so that’s where I’ll start this report.
This buggered-up screw sticks out the front of the receiver, just beneath the barrel. Turn it out to slow the pellets and in to speed them up.
The gun has two power levels that are determined during cocking. The first click of the twin cocking knob selects low power and the second click is for high. On low power, the trigger is single-stage, and on high power it’s two-stage. It didn’t have as much creep on low power as I remembered, but there’s definitely a little bit.
On high power, I’ve adjusted the trigger to release at a much heavier weight than I remembered, but I do remember that I had backed it off to release at less than a pound and it had become unsafe. So, I cranked in a bunch of trigger adjustments, and now it breaks at around 5 lbs.
Adjusting the trigger is a matter of turning in or out on the Allen trigger-adjustment screw located in front of the trigger blade. You can make the second stage break very light, but just remember to test it with an unloaded gun, because you don’t want a gun that fires on its own.
The trigger adjustment screw is on all Mark I and II models.
Power adjustment
As it turned out, my pistol was set to the highest power level it could attain, so the first velocity figures are the best it can do. Since it’s a Crosman gun, I reckoned it would be best to test it with Crosman Premier pellets first.
Crosman Premiers
The .22 caliber 14.3-grain Crosman Premier pellet averages 431 f.p.s. from my Mark I on high power. The spread went from a low of 428 to a high of 434 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy is 5.9 foot-pounds at that velocity.
On low power, the same pellet averaged 310 f.p.s. with a spread that was somewhat larger. It went from a low of 305 to a high of 316 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy is 3.05 foot-pounds.
Then, I adjusted the power as low as it would go. The power-adjusting screw turned counter-clockwise until it seemed to stop, which I guess is a design feature. At that setting on high power, the pistol averaged 325 f.p.s. with a spread from 320 to 331 f.p.s. That’s a muzzle energy of 3.35 foot-pounds.
On low power, the velocity averaged 132 f.p.s. and ranged from a low of 127 to a high of 141 f.p.s. The muzzle energy averaged 0.55 foot-pounds.
I don’t know what benefit the power adjuster gives, since high and low power can be selected during cocking. I can understand why Crosman eliminated this feature in the later years of the pistol’s production. Maybe, with a modified gun there’s an advantage, but with a stock pistol I don’t see the need for power adjustment.
Is it repeatable?
Once the low-power adjustment test was finished, I adjusted the screw all the way back to high power and shot it once more through the chronograph. It registered 437 f.p.s., so close enough to where it was before.
Velocity with Hobbys
RWS Hobby pellets weigh 11.9 grains in .22 caliber, so you know they’re going to go faster than Premiers. On high power, they averaged 472 f.p.s.. The spread went from 464 to 479 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy was 5.89 foot-pounds.
On low power, they averaged 355 f.p.s., with a spread from 352 to 362 f.p.s.. The average muzzle energy was 3.33 foot-pounds. Do you notice how close the power is to the results I got with the Premier pellets?
Velocity with Gamo Hunters
The Gamo Hunter pellet weighs 15.3 grains in .22 caliber. On high power, they averaged 413 f.p.s., with a spread from 408 to 416 f.p.s. That works out to an average muzzle energy of 5.8 foot-pounds, or just a little behind the other two pellets.
On low power, the average velocity was 306 f.p.s. The spread went from 304 to 310 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy was 3.18 foot-pounds.
So, my Mark I is pretty consistent in the velocity department, as we expect a good CO2 gun to be. All shots were indoors with an average temperature of 70 deg. F.
The hold is near-perfect, improved over the stock Ruger Mark I grip by the super-ergonomic grips Crosman designed. And, the gun seems to get plenty of shots per CO2 cartridge. Let’s see what it can do downrange next!
The Crosman Mark I and Mark II – Part 1
by B.B. Pelletier
Crosman’s Mark I Target is a beautiful single-shot air pistol. It resembles the Ruger Mark I.
Ruger’s Mark I was a pistol worthy to be copied.
I am writing this report at the request of a reader, but also because I feel it’s worth telling the full story. I did a very brief report about it back in 2005, when I hadn’t yet developed my formula for airgun tests. As a result, that report is very thin and leaves a lot out. I also wrote another brief report about the LD modification that Mac 1 does to this platform; but, once again, that wasn’t too detailed.
For those readers who are new and might wonder where they can up look this sort of stuff, I use the excellent Blue Book of Airguns, eighth edition as a guide. If you want to be in the know regarding airguns past and present, you need a reference library, and this excellent resource should be the cornerstone.
The Crosman Mark I and Mark II target pistols began production in 1966. The .22 caliber Mark I stopped production in 1983, and the .177-caliber/BB-caliber Mark II continued until 1986. There were two main variations of both models. The first version featured adjustable power and lasted through 1980, and the second variation continued to the end of production for each model. These guns were produced right at the time America transitioned from .22 to .177 caliber as the principal airgun caliber of interest. The market influence of Air Rifle Headquarters, and especially Beeman Precision Airguns, was what made that change inevitable.
Both pistols are very similar, except for the calibers. The .22 caliber Mark I was made as a single-shot target pistol, but the Mark II was suitable for either lead pellets or steel BBs. It had what I have in the past called a “compromise” barrel, which means the rifling was designed to allow the use of steel BBs without damage. I’ve tested Mark IIs and found them to be surprisingly accurate with lead pellets, though not so with the smaller BBs. The loading bolt on the Mark II has a magnet at the tip to hold the BB in place until the shot is fired, because the bore is too large to restrain it. But lead pellets are sized to fit into the rifling and they’re seated into the breech exactly as the .22 pellets are, which is just past the gas transfer port. But one interesting thing was perhaps learned from the Mark II bolt.
The magnetic tip of the Mark II bolt is thinner than the tip of the Mark I bolt, and that may have given airgunsmiths the idea of reducing bolt thickness at this critical gas-flow point to allow more gas to flow past. It’s right at the transfer port, which is essential to the gun’s performance. Whether this is true or not, I don’t know, but thinning the bolt tip is now a standard trick in the power modification of the Mark I.
Today, you’ll see many more .22 caliber pistols of this type than were originally made. That’s because many .177 Mark IIs were rebarrelled with premium .22 pellet barrels because of the power potential of the pistol. That’s not to say you can’t get a pistol rebarreled with a premium .177, but .22 caliber is by far the most desirable. You can tell a Mark II by the presence of black plastic grips, while the Mark I has a reddish-brown grip. But grips are easily swapped between the guns, so this is not a positive I.D. You have to read the frame to know for sure how your pistol started life.
This pistol runs on a 12-gram CO2 cartridge that fits neatly into the grip. My stock pistol gives me about 45 powerful shots on one cartridge. You’ll find out how powerful that is in Part 2. My gun was resealed by Rick Willnecker about 10 years ago, and it still holds and shoots well. Of course, there have been numerous modifications to this gun, including the attachment of bulk tanks under the grip that supply gas for hundreds of shots. With longer barrels and certain other mods, the Mark I can be a very powerful air pistol, clear up to 12 foot-pounds.
The gun was patterned after Ruger’s Mark I .22 target pistol. Crosman engineers with whom I’ve spoken tell me they were enamored with the Ruger style, to the extent that Crosman took the grips a full step beyond Ruger and made it extremely ergonomic. With a thumbrest on the left side (sorry, southpaws), it feels extremely comfortable in the hand and the weight seems to disappear. There are aftermarket grips, but I’ve never found a pair I liked better than the factory plastic grips supplied by Crosman.
The operation of loading is separate from that of cocking. The loading bolt simply pushes the pellet into the breech and seals the breech against gas loss. Cocking is accomplished by pulling forward on two round knobs located on either side of the receiver. The first click is low power and the second is high. I seldom use low power because the trigger has some creep on that setting, while on high power the trigger is almost as crisp as glass.
The bolt simply opens the breech for loading.
Once the bolt is closed, the breech is sealed from gas loss.
The cocking knobs are forward of the trigger. Pull forward one or two clicks.
The sights are fully adjustable for windage by the “push me-pull you” method. You loosen a screw on one side, then tighten the other side to push the sight sideways. Remember to move the rear sight in the direction you want the pellet to go. Elevation is more straightforward by a simple screw that elevates the rear notch against it’s own spring leaf.
Windage is via two opposing screws. Elevation is more traditional.
A Patridge with a sharp undercut to eliminate glare. Just like the Ruger.
The front sight is a target Patridge type with a deep undercut to eliminate glare. It is razor-sharp and, together with the rear notch, makes a sight picture you can really work with. I’ve shot two-inch offhand groups at 50 feet with my Crosman Mark I, which is about the same I can do with a Ruger .22 Mark I.
I have the power adjustment screw on my pistol, though I never bother adjusting it. The gun shoots so well that I don’t see the need to screw around — pun intended. However, for this report, I will demonstrate the velocity range the screw gives so you know what can be expected.
The finish is a black gloss paint, though many of these pistols have been refinished by now. And when custom barrels are installed, they’re often blued instead. The pain flakes off easily on some pistols, but there are many people who will refinish your gun if you don’t want to.
The barrel is eight inches long, which comes as a surprise to many shooters. It sits so far back in the action that it appears to be two inches shorter. The rifling is very often extremely good, so a Mark I can be a real shooter without any modifications. Modern high-quality pellets will boost performance to a level the original Crosman “ashcan” pellets were not able to achieve. We’ll see about this in the accuracy test.
A handsome airgun in all respects, the Crosman Mark I is a true classic.
